Joined: 09 Jul 2005
|Post subject: FLIPSIDE Series #3 (Part Two) - Paul Krassner
|... Bob: I think that's just a big sack of cliches that have no relevance, especially since you had to say it in English, which is a clicheŽ medium. Now, for talking in the media, I would tell kids that creativity is obsolete, and then I would tell them that when something's obsolete, it works. In other words, it can be used, it's no longer the real hidden dynamic on your consciousness. The hidden environment is always invisible. So, by saying creativity is obsolete, I mean that it's not the real constituent factor in your consciousness. The media needs content, so they need creativity. They want more words, poetry, music, baseball, whatever - all kinds of anthropomorphic expression, they need that, especially for the information superhighway. So, if you want to be an anti-environment to a situation where creativity is obsolete and therefore will be the content and endlessly plumbed for titillation, then how do you do an anti-environment to that? I would say to study my strategy of Bob's Media Ecology whenever you have to interact with general media - be a zombie. But you are free to study whatever you want on your own and be creative personally, but don't think that creativity is going to create a change. Creativity keeps the windmills of Satan going.
Paul: Well, I think that creativity is change by its very nature.
Bob: Change is our daily reality.
Paul: Yeah, my wife gets shocked by things she sees on TV, and I say:"What do you expect, to be stagnant?".
Bob: That's another way of saying the media needs new content. Because the media want to be kept on and people want to live in that discarnate cyberspace of TV. They want to be part of it every day. So every form of human expression will be used and exploited and expressed. So, you can play a game where each one of us is both figure and ground. You can put out a book and revitalize The Realist and know that some of it is just to make some money out of it. But at the same time you can also ignore the effects of that and have a different public stance when you are required to talk about public issues. Every one of us in this planet is in a yin-yang situation - we're creating our own disease as well as curing it.
Paul: Well, I guess creativity isn't obsolete then.
Bob: That's right, obsolescence means it can be used and doesn't rock the boat. It's accepted, it becomes a guaranteed environment. The hidden environment is what's really motivating everybody, and creating a lot of obsession or neurosis, and the stress of life is always caused by the new invisible environment. Therefore, an antidote or an anaesthetic to that is the past environments, but to use them as props. So, all human creativity is now provided as the content, but the mixed corporate-media create the stress on people, and they're trying to find out how that stress is affecting them. They'll never be able to find out how that stress is affecting them. But all they have to do is understand what I'm talking about.
Paul: Well, there are New Age resources like Esalen where executives go, but it's an elitist kind of thing because they can afford to go there, and so what it means is that they can go fire an employee but put their hand on his shoulder as they fire him.
Bob: With sympathy or empathy. See, any form of awareness, from visionary to individualistic genius, even stupidity, all forms of awareness are obsolete - they can be used as content. So Esalen didn't know, Micheal Murphy didn't know, that they would become a big deal and then they would become obsolesced and then would be retrieved, and therefore, they sort of have their meaning within that situation - however they exploit it or whatever they want to do.
Paul: But they realize that now what they are trying to say is: what do we do after "process"?
Bob: Right, that's an apt word - "process" is what is affecting all of us, that's the hidden ground, and they just reflected the need, subconsciously, for psychology to adapt to the new electric environment in the '60s and '70s, the electric environment being processual. So they came up with concepts of "process". Now that concept is obsolete because they've exhausted it, people are no longer using it, but they are stuck in an environment that is process incarnate. So, they've got a problem. I really think on a public level, my explanations get people out of that metaphorical problem.
Paul: And yet you're still hopeless.
Bob: Right, I'm a lost cause.
Paul: But you're having fun.
Bob: That's right, and that's ironic.
Paul: I guess that would be my advice to young people - have fun,
which is obviously superfluous advice. If they have to hear it from me, then they're in a pretty sad state.
Bob: First of all, I tell them they're in an apocalyptic situation.
Paul: In case they don't know it.
Bob: They know it, but they don't know how it got to this situation. If they read my memo to Prince Charles in the CD booklet, they can understand how it got here, and it also spells out very good sources like Mae Brussell, Marshall McLuhan, Finnegans Wake, Lyndon LaRouche, Frank Zappa, and other people, covering the whole spectrum. Because you are going to be saturated with TV by the time you are 18 or 19, you want to know what to do, you want to develop an identity. Study something that has taken the best of what has happened in the last 40 or 50 years. You study that and then you realize that the understanding you got from that is obsolete. Then that's the apocalypse - finding out that you don't exist. You have to deal with the fact you live in an almost Oriental oblivion, you live in a resonating void. Once you realize you are gone, you are invisible, in terms of expressing that relation to anybody else, you might then realize "I'm still here!", and then you start to realize you've survived. So, you've got to tell them they're dead, everything's disappeared, you've got to tell them how it happened, and then they'll go through the hallucination of that language and that insight, and then they'll realize, like in Zen, they're still here: "First there is a mountain. Then there is no mountain. Then there is a mountain". But we can't use Zen language anymore, we can't use any discipline's language anymore, we have to use the language we're in now, which no culture has ever dealt with. That's how I begin.
Paul: I think when the anthropologists dig us up, they'll think our credo was: stay tuned.
Bob: Ha, our credo?
Paul: Our belief system could be summed up in the phrase: stay tuned.
Bob: Do you mean that, you're saying that seriously?
Paul: In a certain sense, yes, if you study the media as you and I seem to do, you realize they constantly try and program the audience with fear - either fear that their armpits will smell, or fear that they'll miss something if they turn it off.
Bob: Ha, ha, ha. Okay, that's because of the electric space. But you're right. If you remember the four levels of causality that I began with, if you look at that as a multi-levelled statement that has apocalypse and salvation within it, then that's a good logo. Because we're forced to "stay tuned" today, you have to develop a yoga of self-entertainment, you have to be able to live in the state of being constantly attuned to what's happening and you've got to learn what your relationship to that is. That means you have to stay tuned to other things.
Paul: Uh huh. Well, my wife runs Camnet which is a camcorder network without a host, without any explanations of what you are seeing, what you are about to see, and what you've just seen, taken not necessarily by professionals, but by amateurs, artists, and activists. As she has tried to get into the commercial scene without violating her workday, she's found they always say: "Oh, we've been looking for something innovative like this", and by the time it gets up to the hierarchy, the message is: "We want them innovative but not that innovative".
Bob: Right, what is up at the top of the hierarchy is not a human, it's mixed corporate-media and its' pollstergeists' rating sensibility. Now, media are an extension of us, they are us, but they are bureaucratized into a situation where you as an individual are a real problem if you are allowed to project over a situation that needs the cliches - the lowest common denominator.
Paul: But the people who run the Nielsen ratings, they never took into consideration the mute button, and so with all the money they pay for commercials, they're being muted. But I guess they're depending on the people who don't mute them, the people who watch the commercials when they watch the VCR.
Bob: I explain this on my second CD, how Big Brother is the pollstergeist which leads to the ratings. The ratings are a total fiction that are projected on us, because there is nobody watching advertising any more, we're free from it, but it causes inflation - that stuff costs millions of dollars. So, money becomes inflated by the needs of advertising, but the oligarchs, the powers that be, need to provide content and they need to provide an anti-environment to all the changing programs. That anti-environment is advertising. Advertising provides itself as the ersatz gold standard - it is the hierarch at the top.
Paul: And in the process, since they can take advertising off as a business expense, other taxpayers pay for themselves to be brainwashed. So, it's a very self-fulfilling cycle.
Bob: So, the audience rules, and one cannot think that one represents that audience.